CharGen Time

Hello All!

So last night on DH1 we were discussing a few things and the idea was floated, and generally though to be a good idea, so I'm posting it up for everyone to take part in. Note: No one actually did this last night, we just discussed it.

Storyteller-Assisted Character Creation.

By ST-Assisted, I mean Staff-Assisted, since we don't really have that many people and we have way too many players moving over at once to put it all on the handful of STs we have.

But what does this mean, exactly?

When creating a character, if you get ST-Assists, you will have some more detailed BG-points that are fit into the world beyond just what you know. This allows you to have a character that has pre-made connections with both other PCs and NPCs that are already planned and going to be involved in stories. Taking some of the pressure off you as a PC to weave every NPC in your background into the MUSH, etc.

This is voluntary! Gulp has said, however, that any who take part in it will get 30 XP. This is not a huge amount so it will not be a HUGE advantage if you really don't want to take part.

Here is what the ST will do: Listen to your concept, background, ideas, etc. And come up with ways to tie your character in with the world that's already there. This can happen in many ways. These are, essentially, plot-hooks that your character will have. Some will be positive, some will be negative, and some you won't know the full details of.

If you opt-in, you do not have to take whatever the ST tells you. If the ST says "oh how about adding a cousin that's a criminal?" you can agree or disagree to that. Agreeing means you add the info to the BG... but it also means the cousin might be something you don't know everything about. For example, he's actually a republic spy working as a double agent!

You can opt-out if you really don't like the idea once you get started. But you cannot opt-out after you've finalized your character and receive your XP bonus and receive your secrets, etc. It wouldn't be fair to accept some positive and negative hooks, but the first time a negative hook gets used, you complain and want to undo it.

Not all hooks will balance each other out. You may be blessed... or cursed. Or you may not know about all of them.

Last night, I gave an example of having a "small debt still to pay off to a minor gangster" that's what you think it is. But the minor gangster has sold your debt to Violent the Hutt! And on your first meeting the Hutt wants his money! RAWR!

So from your IC and OOC perspective, your debt was a minor little note that might come up later. But the STs weaved it in with another PC (or another NPC) that makes it more of an issue than you first thought.

That's the best I can do at the time to explain. Questions? Comments?

If you would like to start CharGenning with ST assistance, I am available now. PM me if you like. If you want to catch me on the game, you can page me there to talk it out. But I'm not going to write your character for you. I can brainstorm ideas, but I can't write up BGs or the like. Please come with SOME ideas.

Before we hop into chargen, would it be possible to have some finalized history for us to play off of?

I've heard mixed details. Are we 200 or 300 years post the battle of Endor? Could we have a timeline of major events that happened during the period between the OT and DH2? Maybe some known (NPC) leaders of various factions. That sort of thing. Some of it has been scattered over various threads in various locations, little of it actually finalized.

In general, I like the idea of Storyteller-assisted chargen, but I'm not one for jumping onto a moving train blindly. I'd rather have some background of my own design, rather than leaving it entirely up to a third party. Also, giving XP for it is kind of lame. You're already getting a leg-up with some story hooks, why should it be experience-wise, as well?

Quote :

It is 200 years after the battle of Endor, itself the final consequence of a chain of calamitous events that reach back into the era of the Clone Wars, when the Black Imperium assailed the Republic from without and corruption sapped it from within. Victory over the Empire was not achieved easily for the Rebel Alliance, and all their struggles and travails were not sufficient to restore the full glory, wealth, and prosperity of the Old Republic. 150 years of struggle ensued after Endor, and though the restored Republic conquered most of the Core, it was a ruinous war.

About fifty years ago, aided by the reformed order of Jedi Knights re-founded after Endor by Luke Skywalker, the Republic finally succeeded in defeating its
strongest rivals and imposing peace on the Core. With the courage and sacrifices of ten generations of heroes fresh in their minds, the people of the Republic and the Jedi strove to maintain the virtue, honesty, and integrity which alone could protect their new Republic from the fate of the old.

Even fifty years after the war ended, the galaxy is drained after nearly 200 years of military buildup and destruction. It is a poorer universe--not post-apocalyptic, not miserable, but not the vast, lavish, immensely wealthy world of the Clone Wars or even the titanic military machine of the Galactic Empire. Life is on a more modest scale, and a lone freighter and pilot count for more; it is harder to be lost in the faceless masses.

But a terrible evil has been growing on the borders of the Core, and now is ready to challenge the Republic in a deadly struggle for the body and soul of the galaxy. As members of the Sith Imperium, the Republic's forces, independent groups of smugglers, freighters, or pirates, or even members of elite formations such as Rogue Squadron and Nemesis, the heroes and villains of the future will struggle for control of the legacy of Star Wars.

Taken from the Future of Dark Horizons in the Announcement section. Expect the new Republic to be at relative peace for fifty years, and most of the scars of war have faded.

Gulp likes to throw XP at stuff.

Also, it works well if we have a lot of PCs doing it rather than just a few. And adding an incentive seems to work a lot.

I've got a criminal leader set... I'll make some more story releases soon.

Dont like it, but that's just me.

I dont think I personally would really want staff masterminding people's histories and starting connections for them. Certain staffers have proven in the past that they like to guide people towards things that are beneficial towards their personal characters.

The less staff involvement the better. If people need a RP hook how about just paging PCs and asking them ? That is how it has always been done.

Adding XP for doing this makes me believe staff wants to control people's connections , goals, and outcomes to some extent. This is the DH1 way of doing things. Any system that offers XP as an award will be abused.

Yes, you're free to not opt-in. But I'd like to defend the idea a bit.

It's definitely NOT masterminding histories OR connections.

As I stated last night (and maybe it didn't come through in the post) if you start a character and have a bunch of connections with other PCs and they are both positive and negative hooks? You'd also be rewarded the 30 XP.

The spirit of this is to make characters that are in-depth and connected to the world at large.

Working with a ST gives players an easier time of it. Since STs often know all about the NPCs and various hooks that new PCs don't often know, or would be a bit shy to just page PCs.

Also? This gives you, yes you 748, the ability to have twists that you may not even know about. This may not appeal to you, sure, but it could be a lot of fun.

I don't know your planned character. But let's use my "Pilot" concept from last night.

Let's say that you write up your BG and in your BG during your training there was an accident and your friend died during training.

That's pretty good stuff. But what if the ST used that as a hook for another player? And it was their brother and they feel you are responsible for it ICly. Yes that other PC can page you... if they knew about the background (which most PCs won't) or they could post to the OOC board asking for some hooks, and you might ignore the post (not to say you would, just For Example.)

But if a ST is involved, your BG is the same (maybe the ST had some cool ideas for you, and MAYBE you had some good ideas that the ST could use for other PCs, too) with a few additions but it has some new things added in relation to other PCs and NPCs that you don't know the full extent of. Like a contact with a smuggler that you wrote into your BG is actually a secret agent for the Sith pretending to be a smuggler!

Twists like that are possible for a PC to make. I agree. But coming from a ST, it lends some credibility to the rest of the player base. Because if you wanted to work with the Sith and YOU wrote a Sith-agent in your own BG... people could see that as you just setting it up for yourself. But if a ST did it... that's cool.

As for abuse: It's being documented. So it's going to get found out. Also, no staffers aside from wizards have been staffers before so there is no history of abuse with them!

I'm not sure how the 30XP could be abused. Examples?

Well, I think avoiding undue meddling is a good watchword.

But at the end of the day, staff are going to be 'masterminding' a fair bit. A staff that doesn't mastermind (for and only for the enjoyment of the players) is a staff that doesn't do anything. Staff who generate roleplay potential for players are 'masterminding,' though if they are good at it, they will do so respectfully and skillfully and seamlessly.

A staffless game is an interesting proposition. I don't think it would be remotely viable, but it could be an interesting experiment at some point. But DH2 won't be that experiment.

The important thing is to make sure that when staff masterminds, they do it well; that they open doors for players; that they give them hooks; that they make the game experience richer than it would be otherwise.

That's the target program. The core job of the player liaisons is to let us know when things go off mission. When we're not enriching the game. When we need to step back and reevaluate. ... It would be great if I had more than 6 players' nominations for liaisons. =)

RE: Firehawk

The most obvious idea of how to abuse it is simply taking the pre-generated history and then totally ignoring it in your roleplay - Just for the sake of the 30xp. I know plenty of players who would do that.

RE: Gulp

I was not proposing a totally staffless game but that would be an interesting experiment. I agree that staff should have goals and guide things for the enjoyment of the players. I suppose my next question to you would be... How do you plan to guide things behind the scenes for the enjoyment of the players in a fashion that differs from the way the wizards guided things for our enjoyment on DH1? That didnt really work out too well, which isnt a jab - We're starting a new MU, we all know it didnt work out.

I dont like the idea of a MU that exactly fits the image of a wizards masterplan. Maybe that is just me. I prefer a MU that sticks to a wizards theme and plotline but allows for massive changes/curveballs to that plotline by the players.

But it's not pre-generated. If you're involving a ST, the ST is placing hooks in there for your PC and other PCs. So you may ignore it all you want... but Violent the Hutt still wants his money!

Hard to ignore stuff like that.

And if a PC is ignoring consequences they'll likely be talked to about it.

I love the idea of an ST assisted chargen, and I'd like to opt in if possible.

I don't care if you get less XP or a cursed character, it's all weighed up by a detailed background with many RP hooks -- in my opinion of course

Firehawk:

I understand and I do see the merits to the system, and I guess that if you could simply opt out and give up the 30xp, there is no reason not to allow it - Assuming it would be enforced as you say it will be.

Does Violent the PC have to agree to let you put him in someone elses BG as a hook? Or is Violent a NPC that is somewhere far far far down a storytellers list of people to play/consequences to enforce?

I still think i'd rather screw over Violent the Hutt myself on grid by fast talking him, taking his money, and never returning to the system.

Yeah. Violent could be a PC or an NPC.

The way I'd do it? You owe the debt to minor-NPC... but maybe another more powerful NPC buys the debt up? Or maybe a PC does.

Other PCs who opt-in might get the debt for free... and yeah. You can try screwing them over ICly. That's fine.

It might come back and bite you! It might not. That's the fun part.

It's definitely a different MUSH than DH1. on DH1, you just never go to Nar Shaddaa and avoid the Hutts, but there will be more fallout from stuff... you may not be getting smuggling contracts, etc. Because it'll affect your reputation. Much like Han had to leave the Rebellion at the start of ESB because of the bounty hunters that were after him.

And, at the same time, 30XP isn't much. It's 1 week or RP for most people? Probably a lot less than 1 week of RP, right? So it's not a HUGE deal... but it's a nice little incentive if people are on the fense.

Also... debts don't have to get enforced all the time. Han Solo ran around with a debt to Jabba for YEARS. They're hooks that can snag you and twist things up, not "missions" to accomplish (ie: repay the debt within your first month of play!)

I'm optimistic it'll work pretty well. We'll see.

So who do we talk to on the help if we opt into it?

Any of the new STs or me or Tah!

I would definitely like to sign up for this. As I understand it a player goes and designs their character then the staff come along, read it, and then insert some little tidbits here and there or suggest some minor changes that benefit the story later on. They may or may not tell you about what they are inserting. Connections to other PCs is important to me because I'm going to try to be a good girl and not XP whore this time around. If its not "IC of me" to be there or to go up to some particular stranger and talk to them, then I won't. Connections help drive early RP.

I think its exciting to have a little mystery to your character. You don't know when or how but eventually something is going to crop up out of nowhere via staff and you will have to resolve it one way or another. RL is all about unknowns so should RP.

I see nothing wrong with having some hooks dangling off that staff can tug on from time to time, drawing me into a plot that I otherwise might not notice or not think to attend because its "unIC". Sometimes the biggest problem with joining a plot is having a reason to be there. That excuse of "just happening to be passing through" is so contrived. How often should that really occur? Once? Twice? Not every week.

DH2 should be about a level of cooperation where everyone gives a little and in return the story both on a grand scale and our own individual scales becomes more layered and intriguing. Our STs and staff are giving so much of their own time to run DH2 the least we can do is give them a little bit of pull with our characters.

Great idea! I'm looking forward to it.

This is one of the more interesting ideas for chargen I've seen in some time. The problem with admin-created places - such as at Firan - is that aside from the fact that most players universally despise them, players feel as if they lack control. But one of the problems that crops up from you creating your own characters, is that sometimes new players feel as if they have no hooks into rp.

Obviously you can't switch over to a Firan-like system (noone would play and its just a plain bad idea)...but allowing players the option of working with admin to insert storyteller hooks is a really cool compromise on the problem of backgrounds not really doing much to help players get involved.

Firan was the lowest point of my MUing life. If I could travel back in time I'd definitely tell past me to not join it. The game was run so poorly that I am shocked that its even being brought up here! The staff there was very lacking, not in number but in the negative manner in which they handled conflicts and treated their players.

My only guess is this was brought up because with their character generation system you could not create your own character. You had to play one which the staff designed themselves.

DH2 is the exact opposite. We make our own characters and staff salt and pepper on a few tid bits. People can opt out if they want. At Firan it was the staff's way or the highway. Gulp has clearly indicated there is choice in the matter.

If anyone knows Gulp by now you know that the reason he's running this game is for the enjoyment of all. Gulp is someone I appreciate. DH2 is about everyone coming together for an entertaining time. DH1 had problems. Gulp wants something better. Kudos to him for going to the lengths he has in the matter of two months for the benefit of us, his players.

That was uh, exactly my point.


I probably phrased it badly.


Anyways, this has a lot of potential, for the very reasons described in the beginning parts of this thread, the gambling debt idea is particularly amusing and very Star Wars.