Weapon and Armor Enforcement

Exile wrote:

Is there going to be more enforcement of it? I played a character who constantly had the outfit they wore on codedly.

But a vast, vast majority just wore their armor all the time even if they changed descs. I remember seeing heavy armor on at balls. Just something to keep in mind. Why bother if no one is going to bother with anything but armor?

This question has been moved from the DH2 Clothing thread to a new thread.

My answer:

I hope for more enforcement. Combat armor will likely be ICly restricted by the Sith Empire and Republic so you can expect to see fewer people wearing it openly on the major worlds. I will try to get you a more definitive answer in the next week.

Descs will be auto-updated with your current clothing. Currently worn clothing will be treated as your IC garments.

Steve is dressed to impress with a sleek, stylish black suit, pinstriped pants, and black loafers. He is currently wearing Merr Sonn Blast Armor, Merr Sonn Blast Helmet, Merr Sonn Blast Greaves.


When attacked : No dude, im wearing armor, my desc says so.


When walking into a formal ball: No dude, im wearing a suit, read my desc.

As usual things will fall upon staff enforcing the rules, I think.

You mistake my meaning.

In the DH2 system, your clothing is automatically added to your desc. The multidescer system works differently there. If you're not wearing anything, it says that you're naked. If you're dressed in armor, it describes the armor. There isn't a settable "clothing" field -- you describe your character's "image" field and the system fills in the clothes.

If someone is trying to get around that, it won't fly.

We will post an example of what 'look' for DH2 currently looks like on the Development server once it comes back up. The host is down for regular maintenance at the moment.

Edit: I will try to post two examples. One with clothing and armor and one without. There isn't any need for me to do this but the 'naked' version amuses me.

So if I want to desc my character as wearing a suit, I have to buy a suit object? If I want him to be wearing a long, flowing robe, I have to buy one and +equip it? Sounds tedious and, in my opinion, pointless. What's the point of making clothing items coded ones? That means my character needs to have a room full of clothing as his wardrobe and go there to get new stuff whenever he wants to change. A bit dull, that extreme realism. If it's a combat thing, I understand. Whatever he has equipped is what will count against attacks, fine, but let the person describe his character as wearing whatever he wants. Otherwise this is an instance where code is imposing itself on players, making an experience a little less fun for no logical reason.


Or maybe I'm misunderstanding the way the system works.

I think it would be handy in this case if it was completely free to manifest non-statted clothing on your character. Just pick from a list or make up your own.

That way, new players won't be nudists for the first month while they try to find the clothing they want.

Non-specialized clothing will be rather easy to come by. Within reason, of course. If you have a yearning to be wearing a garment studded with corusca-diamonds, you will have to cough up some credits.

So I was right and every single item of clothing will be coded?

PCs aren't going to emerge from chargen naked, are they? Will all PCs be wearing something generic when they emerge? Will players have a choice between a few classic outfits?

How does having clothing as coded items further the story? Other than to create even more items that folks will have to buy from the already meager income that they will get (as taken from the other posts) what does this really accomplish?

It also creates more clutter in inventories and rooms and stifles creativity. I fail to see any advantage to this.

I don't see why someone can't have whatever they want in their desc. What difference does it make? If someone says he has armor in his desc and doesn't have the item then he will still get hit with the normal damage. Or, fine, limit it with armors: you can't say your character has armor of some sort if you lack the item, or you can't claim he has a gun if he doesn't have it. That makes sense. But if I want to desc my character as being dressed like a circus clown I fail to see why I should go around buying specialty items to reflect that.


As Stalker1 said, it does not further the story in any way and leans toward some of the mistakes made in DH1 in which too much emphasis is put on code instead of areas where more attention is needed.

I'm actually in favor of this, I just don't want it taken too far to the point where PCs lack originality at their conception. I'd hate it if all PCs started out with the same outfit or only had a limited choice of outfits at the beginning. Doesn't make much sense to me when some PCs will have backstory coming into the game.

Like I said, I like this idea. Not so much because I saw a lot of people saying they had a blaster when they didn't, but it got kind of old when some PCs wore armor constantly and still had descs saying they were wearing finery or whatever.

I hate the fact that on DH1, and on some other games, you have to search the entire grid to find what you want for something that should be common. That is why I'm hoping to make clothing vendors "one stop" vendors by packing as many choices in as possible in each vendor. There is a coded limit to how many items each can hold based on the number of characters in an item's name but I think I can work around that. The problem is finding out what people want (see other thread for that).

As to the inventory comment--- inventories work a differently on DH2. Some items take up much more space and (rocket launcher) and some take up a tiny fraction of a space (blaster power pack). I think clothing will lean towards the latter rather than the former. It still means some clutter in inventories but this wouldn't be as severe as it is on DH1.

Yes, we probably do want to offer clothing in chargen if we enforce a 'coded items only' policy.

I like the idea of allowing players to simply pick basic clothing from a list without having to buy it. I had planned to keep the basics as cheap as possible but that would save players the trouble of getting to the planet's clothing store when they don't want something special.

(Sorry for the double post)

I can see good reasons for not wanting a 'coded items only' policy and I can see some good reasons for it. I'm still undecided.

One 'pro' reason that hasn't yet been addressed is the RP-combat element. Alert the guards to look for suspicious people involved in a shooting incident and they may start by looking for people in bloody or destroyed clothing. If you try to get by a roadblock with a shirt that is in tatters then the coppers might have a few questions for you. This actually plays into one of the force powers as well but I can't comment further on that.

I could see setting clothing via a list command as long as the frequency of use is somehow limited. You could still get those nifty RP situations in the aftermath of another scene but without the IC cost and with minimal OOC hassle.

Okay, but supposing you always keep a change of clothes around for just such a situation?

Random thought. What if we just used generic clothing items and allowed players to describe them in their player-descs however they like?

Instead of "brown pants" and "sleek black pants" we just sell "pants" for 2 credits and you can describe them however you like (within reason of course).

Edit Re: Rcantz - Yeah, that is why I'd prefer actual coded items instead of a list command.

Well, I mean, how does that differ? In the list command, you have a change of clothes handy; with the coded objects, you have the objects handy. Unless clothing takes up an ungodly amount of inventory space like it currently does, I don't see there being a drawback.

Desc-your-own-clothing could be good, but only if you could see the item name, so people don't describe their tank top as power armor.

Describing it as power armor would get most characters in a bit of an IC spot with the local authorities so I don't even see that as too much of a problem. Dressing in something, or appearing to dress in something, that could possibly help you resist the cops is frowned upon at this point in time. Still, it would be better to show the item name at the end of 'look' just to avoid some situations.

The difference between a list and a coded item is that the coded item saves us the future debate of "they just switched clothing because the code allowed them to do it and their characters really weren't prepared." To which the other person replies "had it been done differently I'd have been prepared for this eventuality." It is a pointless debate that could never get anywhere but it would cause some needless OOC friction. Not that big of a deal but I'd prefer to avoid that type of situation.

Sorry for yet another double post.

For the list command we wouldn't have to have a specific time set in stone. Any number of possible options could be used. Maybe the frequency could require you to wait one to two hours after combat to change clothes to represent evading pursuit until you have an opportunity to change. Maybe the time is skill based and skill in stealth reduces that time. Maybe you could escape to a resistance hideout, your home, your ship, or a crime lair and change cloths early. Maybe you did something else that I haven't imagined in my current caffeine deprived state.

In any case you can still say that "the person stayed IC for X time while evading capture or this person evaded capture until s/he could arrive at a haven" or something else that will seem reasonable and fair even to someone who is frustrated with an escape. Make people feel that something is fair in advance and you avoid needless strife down the line.

I honestly prefer the coded item approach just because it is easier on everyone involved but I'm still undecided on the debate as a whole.

Similar problem with the 'desc-your-own-item' debate is that you can desc your power armor as a tank top.

The clothing booths will make an appearance once again, in their current, upgraded form (which allows duplication of existing garment types that people have made already). Creating customized clothes will be rather easy, and the starting list of clothing will have enough possibilities that nobody is going to be dressed like an idiot.

But this is Star Wars. 15 costume changes is not the norm. It's a perk. A cool perk -- one I'd totally go for -- but how many changes of outfit does Luke have in ANH? Not including standardized gear (stormtrooper armor, rebel flight suit).

Two. Tatooine clothes and Medal Ceremony clothes.

You will not be able to desc armor as you want. If you are wearing armor then you are wearing armor.

Edit: Also, let me clarify my earlier post. They aren't meant to be comprehensive arguments one way or the other. I just zoomed in on a single unaddressed aspect of the problem and this problem has many aspects. Try to come up with some other IC/OOC scenarios where this sort of thing matters and apply solutions.

I'd prefer a system of desc-your-owns (because not all Brown Synthclothen Pants are the same), but with items to back it up. Not dressing in a ballgown and claiming it to be power armor, or wearing power armor all the time and never posing it as such.

Rather like DH1, really. But with an enforced dress code. It would be nicer if clothing didn't take up as much inventory space when carried, because I may not always have time to run back to my ship/house to swap outfits between scenes.

Ordinary garments won't take up much inventory space.

Armor will.