Story hook XP

Stop trolling. You know you're doing it. And that's worse than unintentionally doing it.

You'll have to clarify which posts, precisely, constitute trolling. I am legitimately curious why staff has not yet found the 10 minutes it would take to give out XP--is that trolling? I am certainly hoping that staff will give a response besides "we have been busy, be patient" because I am legitimately having a hard time believing that, and I have a legitimate interest in staff transparency, because I am legitimately concerned that secrecy and anonymity breeds a truly unpleasant environment. And I am legitimately offering to write the command, if I am provided with the proper materials.

And I am also legitimately curious if this is staff saying "this conversation is over" or simply "don't get into the pointless 'you guys are losers' argument." Though I can certainly see how you might view that last one as trolling.

I dont think it is trolling to push this issue and explore, if you were talking to me.

Something is blatently false with the claim that it just has not been done due to workload. I see most staffers shooting the breeze on channels for more than 10 minutes a day. Staff's posts in this thread have cost more than 10 minutes. There is something else going on with this XP that we are not being told. I dont really care about the XP itself - It's just a very peculiar incident that doesnt quite sit right with a couple of players.

But, really, of all the things to complain about, OOC XP for an in-character advantage in plot immersion? There are far more pressing issues to deal with, like micromanaging all the plots and fixing the plethora of bugs. I, for one, don't even know why this thread even exists, especially after:

Firehawk wrote:

We are a new leaf, and we are NOT rewarding XP for OOC stuff.

Then again, I admit to my trolling.

But we are giving XP for hooks.

We're just having trouble with the XP-printing machine. Something about the ink not drying right.

I was talking about the last couple of posts. Not the asking. But you already received our answers. If you're not willing to trust that -- I honestly don't know what to tell you.

Not really, Tah. I've gotten a "oh yeah we're busy," but never a specific "this is why we couldn't find ten minutes of time to do something that people have been complaining about since pretty much day one."

There are a number of reasons which, while not particularly good, might be valid--"we're lazy" would ring true, or "we're holding it back out of spite for the people who complained." Or perhaps, if it would take more than ten minutes, an explanation--an OPEN explanation--of why it would take longer, or why it is impractical to expect. Is only one person capable of doing it?

Because right now, "we're busy" is simply not cutting it. We have presented our reasons, and they have been ignored. This is not transparency or honesty, this is dismissing

And once again: completely legitimate offer to work up the code for you if you just tell me the basic command for giving people XP. (Check the Voting and Cycling machine if there isn't one.) I'm sure any number of people would gladly do the same. I haven't explicitly asked it yet, but there's a question in there too: why are you rejecting an offer for help if you are truly so busy you can't find the ten minutes to do it yourself?

Tah wrote:

We're going to award everyone after all ST hooks are done. That means approximately in a week. We're waiting for our second batch of hooks.

We felt it was better to just get everything done in one fell swoop.

It's not hard. It'd only take ten minutes. But it's 30 XP earlier than other players that want ST hooks too, but didn't make the last deadline. So we're not going to award players until they're all done.

Honestly, I don't know why people are so worried about 30 XP. You should be in it for the RP provided, not the code reward. If you're (you as in players in general) that worried about the XP, frankly, sucks for you. Wait a bit longer.

As I said earlier, I am not worried about the XP. I am worried about staff being honest and transparent with players, and not hiding behind secrecy, anonymity, and lies. Because you have just admitted that the line "we have been busy" has been a lie--it had nothing to do with business. It's a stupid, pointless lie. It could, and should, have been said up front. There is no harm in that.

People have been asking about the promised XP from the day they received their hooks, if not sooner. There has seldom been any response, apart from "it's coming, be patient." No explanation.

It's a bad precedent to set: staff completely ignoring the repeated enquiries of the players, and, worse, responding with an entirely disingenuous "we've been busy," and not responding when players call them out on the unlikelihood of that claim. It looks a lot like an "us vs. them" mentality, where staff are running a game where they feel that players are only getting in the way of their vision, instead of running a game which exists to help the players have more fun. If it's cool for players to be lied to and kept in the dark for no reason, you're going to have problems so much worse than even the most devout WORA haters complained of.

Tah, from over a week ago, same thread; it's on page one, wrote:

We're going to award everyone after all ST hooks are done. That means approximately in a week. We're waiting for our second batch of hooks.

We felt it was better to just get everything done in one fell swoop.

There's the answer you're looking for, and also the first definite answer to the question. I imagine dealing with people's super special and unique hooks can take longer than expected. Everything after that was poor attempts at placating those who missed that particular post. Or just couldn't wait a few more days.

See? Something peculiar was going on.

So we've called our players trolls, condemned them for bringing them up, and used staff business as an excuse and perhaps a way to generate sympathy. Why could we not have just stated the real reason instead of numerous posts about staff's workload, the XP machine not working, accusations of trolling, and et cetera?

Why do we have a 3 page thread when this could have been said earlier? Why could this not have just been posted up ?

This whole thing is just so very odd. But I shouldnt point out obvious oddities on a new game that was promising player involvement and staff transparency - That's trolling.

We're supposed to trust staff that lies to us even when they have nothing to gain by lying? What will they do when there actually is something to hide?

I realize the original post by Tah said this, but there were numerous posts stating different reasons after that original comment.

Also what I find offensive and insulting is you guys constantly saying this is about 30xp. How are we the ones complaining about 30 XP when staff is the group that came up with this plan and system and touted that as the reward for it? YOU guys said 30 Xp. You guys turned this into OOC action - XP reward, which you stated numerous times you would not do. NOT us. Not a single player brought up a system like this - You guys made it up. You can find my original post opposing this system somewhere and in it you will see that I clearly state my opposition to it and the rewarding of XP for it.

#748 wrote:

Why could we not have just stated the real reason instead of numerous posts about staff's workload, the XP machine not working, accusations of trolling, and et cetera?

Why do we have a 3 page thread when this could have been said earlier? Why could this not have just been posted up ?

I'm not a man of learning and numbers, but I believe it to be a highly contagious case of mass illiteracy, affecting all participants of the thread.

Before this turns any more into an endless loop of defensive and, likely, insulting arguments, which are counter-productive anyway, why not drop the subject?

Clearly, it has been stated that experience will be handed out when they are done (which, mind you, was a terrible idea in the first place). The mixed answers and what you would call a lack of staff transparency is actually caused by poor intrastaff communication and has been a problem since DH1. Don't expect that to change any time in the near future.

I think an easy solution is to not give a deadline for this and just make open for whomever wants it in the future. So if a new player comes in and wants a hook, then it can happen. This would work out just fine, and might be even more interesting if they have a hook with one of the PCs who has made a name for them self at that point. The initial push would be the most time intensive, but after that it would be onesie twosie. Just an idea.

Everyone who had hooks should have the XP now.

I accidentally gave one player 30 XP that didn't have hooks (there were like 35 of them) so I'll just not give that person XP when I give them hooks now. Easily solved.

But I'll tell you, if Gulp hadn't coded the command today to give XP, I would've had to manually examine every player on the list, record their total status (which includes stuff besides XP) and edit it manually.

But it's done. Conspiracy dismissed. Next?

Thank you Firehawk!