Spirit of the Game.

Okay for the last couple of days, i have managed to get involved with scenes that have ended in arguments and verbal ooc fights.

I think we are starting to forget the spirit of the game. We all know the STs/Wizards/etc. Can't be on all the time, and i am thankful for the time they donate to this game. But it seems that people are seeming to start to rely too heavily on the checks, and not upon agreements, and fun for others.

We all want to win, it is part of the fundamental nature that is to be human, but we all can't win all the time. And sometimes, it is far better to loose and create good rp than to be a twink.

And last thing, a couple of times, after the argument, i have copped it, (comments, snide ooc remarks, and accusation) and i wasn't even involved in the scene. If you are angry, SAY SO, and walk away from the computer for a while. I would rather talk reasonable than get head chewed off, once again.

Sorry to have had to write this post but i think it is necessary from the fights i have seen in that last couple of days. Remember we all come here to have fun.

I agree. There is way too much OOC whining and discussion over rules during RP. Let's all keep it fun and IC!

Every scene i've been in breaks down into an OOC feud. I think it mostly relates to our rather shoddy +Check system and the way we have been instructed to use it. See related post. But other than that, yeah, chill out!

I'll even go a step further than the post about the OOC issues regarding Checks and what not. The flavor of the game seems to be very off to me so far. It almost seems in someways we're falling into the DH1 traps. Being as I am exposed primarily to Republic RP, what I see is the same stuff that befell the Jedi. These aren't heroes or good guys, a large portion are rather antagonist and corrupted.

My understanding of the game was that the intent was to capture a bit more of that trilogy feel, maybe I was wrong in that but the OOC bickering is horrendous to the point it's almost undesirable to go IC and even then when one does go IC it's insults after insults. The atmosphere is definitively not one that is inviting and I'm finding myself wanting to RP with only certain people who actually contribute to a scene rather than well, do everything they can to ruin it. Because there are people out there that are flat out ruining scenes and seem to draw pleasure from doing it. Be it through whining about +checks or behaving in manners that quite frankly would not have allowed them to even serve in a military with reasonable expectations of behavior.

If we could get a staffer to comment on what precisely the feel and flavor of the factions is supposed to be? Because If the Republic is just going to be Dark without getting caught doing it, then I'd like to know before I invest time into the game.

Theme seems to be off to a bad start, I must agree.

I dont want to call anyone out in specific, but it's disheartening to see a bunch of Hutts running around calling people "Motherfuckers" and "Retards" ICly , and it's equally disheartening to see that many of the Republic characters are crooked, and many of the Sith characters are softies who run over to the Republic side to RP with the enemy about various things. This would get you killed if we were keeping to theme.

I dont really know how we can even begin to deal with this since we'll never be able to make people RP the way we think they /should/. But a little bit of theme accuracy wouldnt hurt anything.

Honestly? There is a way to 'make' players play appropriately. IC Consequences. Everyone went through a personality section. I've had to make very tough decisions ICly for my character because of the personality I selected for them.

Staff and Storytellers can see personality and know what's going on, if they were to enforce those things we'd be on the right path.

It isn't even so much playing one way or another or forcing people into certain ways, but it's common sense. The complete lack of display of common sense or anything resembling an attempt to build a 'team' atmosphere from some players makes me wonder why they are in the factions they are. I had been concerned I was the only one to feel this way but I've found out since posting this that it is not a minority, it's a majority of people who feel there are a handful of individuals who are frankly making the atmosphere icky.

Agree with you totally Paradox.

But it's also difficult. It's easy to think another player is not playing the way they should be. I frequently find myself a victim of this. Why are you doing this? What is your problem? Etc etc etc. If I explain to people that I have the following traits: Leans toward evil, chaotic cowboy, opportunistic, no regard for sentient life.. Suddenly these players immediately understand. It would be awesome if staff could monitor this stuff but that would require a much larger staff and i'd imagine this would fall near the bottom of their priorities even then.

There is nothing that infuriates me more than my IC motives being questioned via page by another player.

#748 wrote:

t's disheartening to see a bunch of Hutts running around calling people "Motherfuckers" and "Retards" ICly, and it's equally disheartening to see that many of the Republic characters are crooked, and many of the Sith characters are softies who run over to the Republic side to RP with the enemy about various things.

I am mildly surprised that you chose to point at the Hutts, since we only have two of them and I hang out with them all the time, but they have not once to my knowledge leveled either of those terms at people IC. I imagine you were making things up to make your point, but perhaps you can make your point using actual examples, rather than saying stuff that people might mistake as true.

I'm pretty sure a whole room saw this when it happened and many commented on it in OOC. But whatever.

Are we really trying to fall into the Elendor trap of having enforced theme in all of our factions and making people RP within a certain uninteresting narrow subset? At least half of what made DH1 awesome is you didn't have to fall into some infantile 'I am a hero' or 'I am a baby-eating monster' archetypes. You could be morally complex! You could be evil without stabbing babies, you could support the Republic and be evil, you could support evil while having the very best of intentions and the most rigid of morality. It was elegant and beautiful. If you want to play a hero, go ahead. You can be a shining beacon of light all you want, and devour all the puppies in your darkness that your little black heart desires. Please don't try to force me to do the same.

It's this kind of talk that makes me want to play nothing but corrupt Republic officers. I may yet.

It is also this line of reasoning that makes players within those structures cringe. No one is suggesting forcing characters to behave certain ways or act or say certain things. But it is /very/ obvious that there are some people who don't belong with others. Do they have absolute IC reason to act that way? I'm certain they do.

I have every legitimate reason to snap and tell my boss to go shove it. I'm still going to get fired.

Just because there's a legitimate IC reason to do something, doesn't validate it. It means there needs to be a consequence. At present staff are handling other issues. But what I'm suggesting is clarifying the structures, theme, and feel of the factions so that then the staff can from an IC Leadership position look and be like 'yeah, this person's behavior doesn't fit the established theme of this location, they'd have to be fired/disciplined until their behavior ICLY fixed'.

Not everyone is angels, not everyone is demons. But if you're hanging out with the angels and acting like a demon you might get kicked out of heaven.

Yeah, I haven't seen any IC behaviour that has been problematic that has not had any IC consequences. It really sounds like you're just trying to ICly force people to all be shiny heroes instead of doing so OOCly. It's slightly better--it is, to use a tabletop analogy, the equivalent of, instead of simply denying the players the ability to go somewhere, putting a squadron of level 20 guards there to block their path. It presents the illusion of choice, though it is not a very compelling one.

Just because some people are gritty and pragmatic doesn't mean they need to be slapped around by command. Similarly, just because some Sith are clever enough to do more than wholesale slaughter and random evil does not mean they need to be killed for being soft.

In the end, if it doesn't fit the game's theme it is a problem. Hence, why I said staff need to be more clear with the direction theme is going to take regarding the factions.

I would also appreciate it if you didn't infer what I am trying to state when I flat out state it. I have no interest in making people fit my OOC vision to either be heroes or psychos. I am stating that there are IC expectations that are being unfilled in my opinion. That opinion may be wrong, however I will wait for the staff of the game to make that determination, particularly since I am far from the only person to note this or voice this. But again, please do not place words in my metaphorical mouth. It is rude.

I'm just trying to figure out what your IC expectations are. They appear to be functionally identical to expecting everyone to be heroes and lunatics, except you're cool with the heroism/lunacy being ICly enforced. You are not being overwhelmingly helpful with descriptive detail. Very good on you for not wanting to force people OOCly. I understand that. I do not know what it is you want ICly.

Here is what you said: "Being as I am exposed primarily to Republic RP, what I see is the same stuff that befell the Jedi. These aren't heroes or good guys, a large portion are rather antagonist and corrupted."

Now, I interpreted that as meaning that you want them to all /be/ heroes or good guys--or at least to act like them. That, while you are cool with the idea of these concepts, staff should have NPCs ICly correct or punish them for behaving that way. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The issue I am having is that, if you are talking about the events I think you are talking about, there are no crimes being committed. Some people are just unpleasant. It is not against the law, or against military rules, to be unpleasant. Now, if actual crimes were being committed, then something should ICly be done. I haven't seen any actual crimes being committed.

Perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe lots of people in the Republic really are committing crimes that are going unaddressed. I missed them all, if so, but that doesn't mean they're not happening. But barring that, I'm left with the interpretation that you are upset that the people in the Republic are not heroes and good guys, and that nobody is ICly correcting them for it.

One thing I find annoying is how a really lousy roll can be turned into a benefit by storyteller's. One time someone botched a stealth check while hiding from me and the storyteller ruled that the botch sent a boulder rolling towards me which I had to dodge but even though I should have had a rough idea of where to look my detection check was the same difficulty. So the botch became a free, albeit, inaccurate attack, against me.

Re: My ruling on the boulder.

I shouldn't have to explain this, but I will, because I don't want rumors to start about favortism.

The Republic was running a com-jam session with Gamma. I was idling nearby, but kinda paying attention to it. Hopped over to watch (as I am wont to do) and noticed Wing show up to RP.

Now, whether or not he would've gone gallivanting around the hills on a whim is a different matter. But what I asked for was simple:

The Republic troops make a stealth check.

The Sith makes a stealth check. Higher rolls stay hidden, lower rolls do not.

There was quite a bit of distance between the Sith and the others. Shooting couldn't occur.

The Sith rolled a 4% on the "detection" check. This did not detect ANY of the other stealth rolls. I went with this method because in a PVP roll, I like to just go by the numbers, rather than the word-result (since another republic did botch.)

So the next 'round' of poses, a Republic Agent went down for sniper rules. And botched. His pose indicated he knocked loose a bunch of rocks he was going to use as a perch.

I posed those boulders rolling toward Wing's Sith character and had him check dodge at "simple" and he succeeded easily.

I was adding flavor to the scene. You also were given a general idea WHERE the Republic was. Since I specifically said there were two snipers you saw (since both failed their sniper cover checks) and you could pose as you wanted. You did NOT see the rest of the Republic team because they rolled good stealth checks.

So, no, the botch became no such attack. If you had failed a simple check, I would have wounded you. If you had botched some fancy check, I may have had you possibly wound another character with the shot.

I really don't appreciate when players fail to report all the facts of the scene.

AS for the other questions... well... maybe a bit more thematic explanation will help. We'll see.

I keep rather comprehensive logs of my mushing. They are an automatic part of my cilent and the only time they do not work is when the computer I primarily mush from is somehow inaccessible, so maybe >1% of the time.

I have said "motherfucker" twice in 2009, once on my DH1 character. In this recent instance, I had just walked into a room to see if anything was going on, and the first occurrence was that I was nearly incapped by an artillery strike that I had just been warning people about. The two comments about it were:

[OOC] Player1 says, "Hutts say purple? ha ha ha ha"
[OOC] You say, "they do when this happens."
[OOC] Player2 says, "lol"

As for retarded, I have never used it on this character. My previous character has used it thrice in 2009, twice referring to a "retarded scheme", and once to say "I do not know which retard it was that informed your master incorrectly blah blah other words."

I hardly think either of these qualify as an epidemic of using questionably-out-of-place language on my part. If someone can address me to an approved book of Star Wars profanities, I'd be much obliged. There's only so many times I can say bantha poo.