Brawl and Incumberance Rules

This came up in the most recent battle on Vasatissa. An individual was attempting to save a friend from capture/torture/etc, WHILE being engaged in close hand-to-hand style combat. However, there are no rules in place to require a player to +limit on dodge or an attack when attempting to make a sacrifice by helping out an unconscious/incapacitated individual. While I know this is Star Wars and miracles can happen, it is simply unrealistic to think someone can dodge a person at all when carrying someone of equal or greater size. If nothing else, the rule should be instituted that if RP dictates a logical pass, than it should be executed. I am sure there are plenty of other scenarios where it would be illogical for someone to be able to dodge or get behind cover from someone right on their heels.

I also propose some form for grappling rules be instituted. It is rather unreasonable to require a brawler to attempt to punch out their opponent before any sort of 'capture' can take place. Especially since the opponent likely has a weapon that can probably do more damage. There are plenty of ways to keep someone from getting away from you or disarming them. Having to constantly punch their arm or body to knock them down or take out their weapon seems a bit too unrealistic. Just cause they hold a weapon doesn't mean you can position someone in a way to keep them from attacking you with it. Hopefully, this can work to balance brawler against the other types of fighting styles (melee, blaster) and make it a worthwhile pursuit. It would also increase the RP by allowing more situations to occur during combat.

Yeah, there is something to be said for that.

However, in that particular case it wouldn't have applied anyway. Because the person carrying was carrying a person who used an +escape. +escapes are FREE ESCAPES and I am reluctant to start imposing penalties on others and the like.

Let's also not forget that this entire back and forth battle between PCs was happening with the NPCs ignoring it. Which isn't necessarily "logical" either.

And any type of "capture" system will have to be analyzed carefully. After all, if you can capture a person using a +check (that is countered by something not usually taken, like brawl vs brawl) it will skew the entire system into a place that favors players who take this.

Just because the unarmed +strike says you punch them doesn't mean you have to take it at its word.

I think the main problem is... no matter what is posed, the attacked will always work as if it is a +strike. Someone hit/kicked/bit/etc. However, unarmed attacks like tackling/tripping/etc will go unacknowledged and RP will not work out accordingly. As much as I hate it, nobody likes to lose and if the code supports their ability to continue to attack back, than they will do it.

I know about the incumberance. I had this posted before I finished realizing the player was actually using an +escape rather than hoping to avoid using it.

The scene certainly put a spotlight on the issues that arise when PCs try to get involved in +escape action -- in this case it created a very cool IC scenario, but unfortunately it also made the ensueing fight for the escaping PC - between the two Sith/Republic chars present - seem very unlikely.

One solution would be for PCs to generally stay out of the "+escape stories" for other PCs. At least if the 'rescuer' PC must, at the same time, interact with other PCs in the same scene.

Another solution COULD be - but not sure if the STs agree - to let the 'rescuer' PC deal with the full consequences of trying to help a friend - without getting any bonuses. This means heavy burdening for lifting someone, etc.

If the 'rescuer' PC fails, then the +escaping PC will of course still escape, but must use other means... for instance NPCs. The 'rescuer' PC would then have to get him or herself out of the sticky situation anway! Possibly by spending one of their own +escapes - which I think is fair, since you -are- trying to be the hero and must risk something to be so!

Anyway, just my two-cents

So if I understand right, one player used +escape, and attempted to grab and run away with the body of another player without using an additional +escape?

It seems that one +escape should work for one individual. If they want to heroically grab someone else and run off with them, too, they should just be charged one additional +escape.

No.

Player A was incapped. Player B was not. Player C was an enemy.

Player A used an +escape

Player B said "hey, you can have ME run you out of here as you use your +escape"

Player A was like "that sounds cool!"

Player C then proceeded to shoot at B and B kept +dodging.

Player B never used an +escape and never got hit. Player A used an +escape.