Jedi Knights

About my personal (Read: not staff) expectations ...

Week 1:
You've become a Jedi Knight, congratulations! Now Bob over on Byss could use your help protecting the families of local resistance members. I know Bob isn't someone you regularly RP with but he could use the support.

Week 2:
You've detected an anomaly in the force at in the Rienna system. Grab some friends and go investigate. Also grab Dan, he is a new player that you haven't RPed with yet but from the sound of it he'd have a blast. Oh, and talk to Jess. Yes, she is a bad guy but wouldn't it be great to have some rival PCs running interference on this? Her crew would even make a great foil for yours and maybe she can get Ryan involved! He's new too and could be a good rival for Dan.

This is what I mean when I talk about leadership and being proactive. Force Users are in a wonderful position, often a unique position, to get people involved in some outstanding plots or to support other plots. You can really provide an excellent play experience for other people, especially those you normally don't RP with.

I fully expect the week 1 scenario out of any force users on DH2. Connect time and RL issues aside, if you can't get involved with another player you may not RP with much on such a simple level then you should rethink your character.

The week 2 scenario sounds simple but it really isn't easy. Not everyone can do it and those that can normally had work at it. I've seen players try very hard at this and never get it right (they still good players) but I do expect that our Force Users on DH2 to make some good attempts.

You don't have to try scenario 2 every week. Nobody has the kind of energy needed to find and herd that many players in the same direction every week (herding cats?). But you should be thinking about getting other players involved as often as possible.

If, out of 8 force users, one draws players into a fantastic plot/mission every other month then we can have an excellent PC-driven plot/mission almost every week.

This sort of thing is Bo's greatest strength so I'd suggest asking him for advice sometime. Bulba (bull on other games) only pops in occasionally these days but he was a master of this kind of leadership so talk to him if you get the chance. He is probably the best criminal Dark Horizons has ever had and you can learn a lot from him. (He taught me the key to criminal success: how to make a bribe not look or feel like a bribe. Learn this trick and you can manipulate almost anyone in real life or on a MUSH.)

I'm not sure if he still does this (my connect times have changed) but this kind of thing used to be MT's bread and butter. I also know that K, Lo, and several other current and former DH players are fairly good at it. Keep an eye out for them and ask them for pointers.

Yes, this is a very high standard. But when it comes to recruiting for a "special" role, a leadership role, or staff slot I'm interested in those who will attempt it and continue to attempt it. All I want is a good faith effort every now and then.

Keep in mind that if you get to a special role you are getting it at the expense of everyone else. Do try to give back to the rest of the MUSH.

And to Stalker: Yeah, I don't really see staff regulating much at all! But having it noted to everyone that it's possible... just in case. This leaves it open... which can be bad (people might be paranoid that staff will just come down on them for no reason, and we don't want that to happen.) But we don't want to have a person just say "Hey, it's IC for me to do this" when they change week to week and it's not really "proper" Jedi Knight behavior (as an example.)

Yea, in agreement here with Paradox. Let it be known...let the word slip out from the closed meeting between the Admiral and his Captain, that the secetary overheard, that the Admiral is now wanting to go kill all orphans cause they are a drain to the economy....

Communications can be used very effectively and very creatively used if thought about.

I'd say both.

NEWS FLASH: Anti Jedi sentiment swells on Byss due to a failed attempt to rescue the headman's son. (OOC: Jedi should be expected to receive a foot in the backside if they go to byss from the local inhabitants)

Make it IC, let people know the OOC reasoning and expectations. This addresses those ooc expecations but it does its best to keep things in an IC Scope. It also lets players know about the situation and what unfolded so maybe they can attempt to address it. Send a delegation to Byss, hold public mourning, etc.

Would the OOC-stuff hurt the immersion aspect of IC news releases?

Maybe only add an OOC: note when the meaning wasn't really crystal clear?

I think clarity is important, but that immersion is also really good. I'd rather it be pretty obvious Byss is angry at the Jedi... but wouldn't necessarily want someone to say "No, I'm not going to Byss, they don't like Jedi right now." Or something that was spelled out for them.

ie: The OOC notes might be too much spelling it out for players maybe?

On the topic of needing to publish detailed guidelines for expected IC behaviour...if players don't know that Jedi arn't meant to hold up kittens and beat their skulls in with a wrench, then I suspect a mistake was made in selection.

RE: T

I love that layout because that is precisely the sort of angles I agree with, trying to tie in as many people as possible. The other part of your statement I appreciated was :Making an attempt to do it. It won't always happen, and that can be discouraging too. It's about putting forth that solid effort to tie in people.

Most people I encountered on DH to be honest were pretty good at trying to pull people into their loops. Throw someone a hook, throw someone an in. See someone in CG and they need a hook? Help them out. I know even right now there are people who are planning chars and talking about chars plotting hooks within themselves so that there'll be RP opportunities. FS characters are generaly in very good positions to do thsi, as are IC leadership positions. Not every job has to be done by Luke Skywalker. Sometimes sending his cousin Billybob will allow Billybob and his friends to get involved and spread things out.

Well it ties into what I was saying before FH with what is plain to someone isn't plain to another. At the least put a 'contact so and so' for more details, so players know who to go to for clarification if they need it. The less OOC confusion the happier the player base will be and the less suspectful they'll be of that ever threatening 'gotcha' mentality. Players want to be surprised but seldom do they want to feel like they've been cornered through manipulation, y'know? So if you can do the IC broadcasts to avoid that gotcha, great. If not, better to be clear than run it that way.

And wait... Jedi don't beat kittens with a wrench? What about a tack hammer?

Well said, Paradox. Very well said.

Tack/Toffee hammers are for use by angry feminists a la Pankhursts.

Sith are supposed to use pepper spray on the kittens in a sack and then let them take care of each other.

I've been thinking about the limited percentage of slots (initially stated at 20%). Is this something that is going to be hard and fast or was it more of a feel of not wanting the entire system to be filled with Jedi? Because here was a thought I had reading about some of the things posted in more depth.


With the conflict and with a lot of the Jedi Learners in various phases of development being in the 'real world' it really seems as if there is room for more students than the current set up allows. For example, military based learners will still be in the military and developing more slowly it would seem. They wouldn't be in the military exclusively but pulled from assignment occassionally like in the post that was made. If they are plugged into the system and not in some kind of seclusion or cult, it really seems as if a larger segment of the population could hypothetically be either being considered or worked on by the Jedi. I'm just bringing this out after looking at the numbers and at the people I've talked to personally and seeing they don't add up if it was hard and fast.

But again, this new integrated system without the Jedi being temple rats really lends itself to a much wider system of involvement as they develop.

That is a very interesting addendum. The purpose behind it I am figuring is to encourage Masters/Knights to readily train and not get complacent?

It's to ensure transmission of quality and prevent organizational burnout.

And to keep the more "advanced" Jedi truly invested in their students.

This does raise an opportunity to ask this.

Is there anything on tap to keep people cycling through and to prevent that sitting at the top? I mean, you log on to DH now and by and large there has been turnover but there's also places where you see the same people who have been in the same spots for 2 years now. Is there going to be an inherit system to allow new players to get a shot at those leadership positions or is it once someone is in, they're in until their char 'dies'.

I'd guess that it's probably going to depend on the player. I don't think anyone will want staff stepping in and contriving some horrible accident to kill someone.

But the only "leaders" that are still around from two years ago are... Palpatine and Tuil?

How about a... emeritus system? Or retirement? Like say a person spends a year rising up through the Jedi Order, becomes Jedi Master... and spends the next 6 months leading RP, etc. I don't think anyone wants to just remove that fellow, but maybe after a time, the player might grow a bit tired as the "leader" and step back, still being a Jedi master, well respected, etc. But is no longer the IC leader and a younger Master or Knight steps in to lead for a while?

I'm not sure what you mean by "cycling though" exactly. Like dying and coming back just as strong? If that's the question, I think another threat (the XP one?) talked about not having much XP carry over.

Well not even having PCs die, but having them step aside, retire, make room for others to have their shot. They could do that.

Yeah, but it'll probably be something that is mostly player choice.

We might have some of those OOC Expectations that if a leader starts missing, they're asked to let someone else take over.

I think a good question is about the limited "jedi slots" (or "sith slots") from the initial posts, it seems you can become an "initiate" of the order no problem. Like a "true believer" essentially. But you won't be on the path toward being a Jedi Knight. Just on the path to being a "good person" or the like.

But the question is: If you die as a jedi or sith force-trained character... what happens to your next character? Do you not get a chance to take a force-trained again? I think that might increase the poignancy of character's suffering... after all, if you die, and re-roll another character heading for Jedi... is it really that important a death?

I'm hoping character death, in general, is a BIG deal, and happens because of circumstances, not just choice.

My view on character death in another thread was:

Get attached to the story, not the character. if it is fitting for them to die, then they should be ready to in order to advance the story. If we tell people when they lose a character they can't do something they enjoy as far as story lines then that is a big deterrant to being ready to take that plunge for story. We enforce character attachment and end up with situations where people do anything no matter how unreasonable, to let their char live on. That's as much a problem as anything else.

Agreed.

Sometimes, you may not die as you expected, or wanted to. Not everyone is going to go out in a blaze of glory. You might just go down in a bar fight... but I've always thought one of the things lacking in DH1 was the real threat of death.

It is lacking. And honestly I've always had the approach that everyone's time comes. If possible let's make it as good as possible, but people need to be accepting of that too. It's really sad when a character has a chance to go out as an epic hero but instead burns 7 +escapes to avoid death. That's not good story, that's tryign to save your character no matter the cost. We need to move very much away from that.

The Sith Empire will be designed to turn idling at the top into a death warrant, since the whole Sith political game will be rather competitive and someone who isn't performing will be easier to discredit. More on this when we release details on the Sith Empire.

The Republic? The pressures will be different. The political roles will be subject to election, so we can design the Republic election system to cycle people out if they are no longer performing at the highest level.

Well Gulp I don't think it's jsut about performance. I think it's also about giving people a chance. It is theoretically possible for someone to do a very good job of their tasks as a leader and develop a rather solid character that won't 'die'. But does that mean no one else gets a chance to lead ever? I just think we need to encourage people to be fluid.

Your point is a good one. At the same time, I'm not sure how comfortable I am building in automatic expiration dates. Some characters are like Wedge Antilles. They seem to last through everything. Some are like Biggs Darklighter. They flame out splendidly. I think if there's a high enough level of incidental attrition built in, simple luck will play a role. I don't think every role needs a guaranteed rate of turnover, so long as there's a reasonable average rate of turnover.